Some thoughts on gear companies.

I may be right, or I may be wrong but when it comes to choosing who I buy gear from, I make certain assumptions about the quality of the gear based on the behavior of the company. Price certainly can be indicative of quality, but as we all know too well, there are some very expensive lemons out there.

In my head I split the cost to manufacture and sell any piece of gear is split into a bunch of different categories.

Raw materials
Labor
Retail costs
Shipping and distribution
and Marketing

I don't know what the exact ratios are, it's not important really for my buying process, just being aware they all have a share of the price tag is what's important.

The way in my mind to maximize the quality of the product you end up with for what you spend is to choose companies that minimize the costs of the product that have absolutely no impact on quality. Basically, the 3 bottom on the list above.

One of the things I have been considering is the huge amount some of the companies spend on A) Marketing campaigns on social media and B) Sponsoring "celebrities" and their shows or content. Anyone who has dabbled in promoting stuff on Facebook or youtube can tell you, that shits not cheap and some of these companies are throwing ads at you like it's going out of fashion. One of my rules for buying is I try to go to word-of-mouth recommended companies, which I haven't ever seen large-scale paying for social media ads, sponsoring influencers, or in not-so-subtle product placements on tv shows. All these costs are passed on in the price tag of your goods, and add nothing to their performance as a piece of kit.

I should caveat before someone trolls through my photos and points out something like Stoney creek or First Lite, I will pay for this stuff secondhand if it comes up cheap enough!

Another thing I consider is retail costs. If I can buy direct from the companies that is doing the manufacturing, that seems to me like it should result in a better cost/quality ratio. The company makes the stuff, and ships it straight to me, the end consumer. There is no markup by a secondary retailer, and no money is spent hanging it on a rack for display. I understand some folks like to try things on in a physical store, and I can appreciate that, but most companies have really good sizing charts online now and if you know your own measurements, you can make pretty bloody accurate orders without putting things on first.
I also acknowledge the need to support local retail outlets, if you want to have them stay around. I do try to use them as much as I can when what I want isn't available straight from the manufacturer.

These are just my thoughts, arguably they are wrong, but I'd have to say, they have resulted in some brilliant pieces of gear. Some companies whose stuff is killing it that I have found are Twinneedle, Earth Sea Sky, Sarvos MTac gear and boots (which sadly is no longer available), Kaiwaka, and Squires manufacturing. Coincidently they are all also manufacturing here in NZ!

If you disagree with my ethos, let me know why? Maybe you feel like promoting hunting entertainment is worth paying a bit more for your kit for?

Also, feel free to chuck some more companies out there who are doing a great job.
Cheers.

Clogger NZ. Excellent chainsaw chaps & trousers. Made in Invercargill. I have tested a few of their trousers by installing a log down each leg and cutting them with two different size saws. Great fun and very informative.

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Originally Posted by Brad S

Clogger NZ. Excellent chainsaw chaps & trousers. Made in Invercargill. I have tested a few of their trousers by installing a log down each leg and cutting them with two different size saws. Great fun and very informative.

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Got some photos? If they’re any good the chain shouldn’t get as far as the log with the saw running at full revs.

I only had videos of it, so I took a couple of screenshots. When we used my husky 572xp at full throttle it sometimes was completely effective, and other times managed to cut into the wood a little before jamming up. The pants stopped the 45cc saw every time tho. There are vids somewhere on social media of Clogger doing various tests. Pretty sure there's no chainsaw pants out there that are guaranteed to save you from a big saw. Here's some pics.
This was using a brand new x-cut husqvarna chain on both saws, which I've always found to be very sharp straight out of the box.
Attachment 217051
The above picture was the result from using the smaller saw. The fibres jammed the saw instantly.
Attachment 217052
The above picture shows the mark in the wooden log after using the bigger saw. This happened a couple of times.

Tract 'scopes and optics (US company) have a direct to consumer model and their products and services are outstanding.

country of origin matters no more, some of the chinese electronics are damn good, others are junk. its all luck of the draw nowadays

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Originally Posted by +Snoop

The direct to consumer model is much better for both the manufacturer and the customer as: the manufacturer deals directly and can get feedback from the end-user, as opposed to filtered feedback, and the benefit of the increased margin the manufacturer will make, and in theory less the customer pays (retail margin varies by product type). The down side for a manufacturer is unless they have an active e-presence, social media etc, their sales volumes are just not going to grow as they would selling in 1000 units for example via a retailer. Depends also on the product category. In the States Kuiu and Exo MTN Gear for example sell direct to consumer. Kuiu have invested heavily in direct to consumer marketing. Exo no so much, but both do "product placement" with leading you-tube channels. What I like about Exo though, is they hate the whole thought of professionally sponsored reps, and mostly put kit out there for guys to test, so they can improve their designs. That and they are all about producing a better product, sales volumes.

Both are excellent kit. Both are really expensive. Both - you either take a punt on buying and hoping the product fits, or finding someone who has one, and trying it. Your talking $600-700 USD product here. We have quality equipment being built locally by Twin Needle, Southern Lite Packs etc, so I'm going there for my next pack and supporting local.

For consumer products, take for example, dehi or free dried meals, you need a retail model as direct shipping to customer isn't going to meet deadlines, and as a "consumer/fmcg" product, you just have to have it in front of the punter in store. Dealing with retailers in not fun. You end up giving up a margin + potential rebates (advertsing, promotions, give aways) + in store support (potentially sales reps in store training and promoting your product). But for that you get bricks and mortar exposure, product availability, no doubt lower than RRP pricing, and hopefully no questions asked product support if it goes pear shaped.

If you want to buy NZ, that's awesome. I try to support local brands, for example Swazi, Hunters Element, Twin Needle. But is it NZ made? Or a NZ company that imports and markets overseas made products? Swazi outsources fleece, they had to as they were not competitive. Their high end jackets are robust and NZ manufactured still. Hunters Element/Stoney Creek overseas it appears. Twin Needle - awesome local kit. One brand I've actively moved to is MTN Gear - I've just replaced a Spartan Bipod with a MTN bipod. Why? Because it is a better product with the range of movement I need for where I use my equipment, and the Spartan fitting failed. The fact that Matt designed and produced these locally is awesome and love seeing him export internationally as that grows our economy. But at the end of the day it is a better product, that's why I bought it. Innovation is costly so I'm prepared to pay more in this case and buy direct as he is setting up his business base.

So, it depends. For consumer goods, your gonna be doing the majority of your sales through retail with 5-10% through a direct to web site. For higher end equipment retailers may not stock it, and you want to consider if they will support it if something goes wrong. For mine, technical equipment, you want a quality local provider who can cover warranty.

Do your research and trust the opinions of those you value.

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swazi is now thai based, hunters element is usually chinese though apart from fading issues its been ok.

I still cant find that Davey Hughes quote about not manufacturing offshore.... a shame he had to make that call.

Something to think about as I kind of have a foot in both camps.

I can buy the same product my employer imports cheaper from a retail store in the US than buyn it here at dealer cost it an that includes freight to NZ. Economies of scale, Bass Pro buys thousands in a month we only buy hundreds of units in a year.
Downside is warrenty is only valid if I send it back for repair in the region it was sold.

Retailers margins on a lot of stuff is 15-20% ie their buy price is retail less 20%, so you will be selling a lot of stuff to make a living off that especially as the Consumer Guarantees Act applies to the retailers and not suppliers/distributors yo will also get all the grief while the suppliers fob you off in most cases ...............some local gun suppliers even think the CGA does not apply specifically too them at all!!

Distributors who direct retail in any form SHOULD not be selling at any less that full recommended retail if they are supporting their stocking dealers otherwise why would the dealers bother??

My biggest bug bear
NZ retailers/companies who have their own clothing manufactured overseas (generally in China / Asia) typically it seems buy the lowest price and retail at maximum margins.
Generally the gear falls apart very quickly or is poor fitting. How can my Overseas sourced stuff last and my local stuff fall apart. In a lot of cases it could be made in the same factory!!
I have a Sitka Jetstream Jacket which I brought in 2015, been worn everyday both at work and recreation-ally and its still as good as the day I brought it although there is some small wear signs on the cuffs (although my arse puckkered paying for it) where as my "Shooters Jacket" from u you know where has fallen to bits and all seam sealing failed and its only used sporadically otherwise hung up in the shed.

I've got a bit of the newer "made elsewhere" Swazi stuff that I use daily on farm and no problems so far. Hilarious when guys get their backs up and come with that attitude "swazi is shit, it's all made overseas now" and the same for other NZ companies so they go buy Kuiu made in China and vietnam by an American company. It makes you a better hunter than everyone else though cos it's got a fancy pattern and all the Instagram hunters wear it.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I still cant find that Davey Hughes quote about not manufacturing offshore.... a shame he had to make that call.

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I think it was sold to Line 7

Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst

I've got a bit of the newer "made elsewhere" Swazi stuff that I use daily on farm and no problems so far. Hilarious when guys get their backs up and come with that attitude "swazi is shit, it's all made overseas now" and the same for other NZ companies so they go buy Kuiu made in China and vietnam by an American company. It makes you a better hunter than everyone else though cos it's got a fancy pattern and all the Instagram hunters wear it.

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It does not actually matter WHERE its made its too WHAT standard is made too.

China gets a bad rap but actually they will manufacturer to whatever Standard the customer requests (yes you have to monitor the results). NZ seems to operate on lowest costs/quality and maximum retail price.

Its their customer who sets the standard they (the manufacturer) must meet.

I don't care where anything I buy is made but I do want it too last / comparative to what it cost.

When it comes to clothing price should dictate quality as in everything else.

I have never seen "good" and "cheap" used together often

Gear manufactured in China is just a fact of life. Some of it is great, some of it is not. Happy to pay more for NZ or US (or whatever) made for a specific item if quality is really important. What I'm not interested in is cheap stuff made in China, rebranded by a NZ company and sold at a much higher price. These days, it's easy to buy from China directly, so as long as you don't mind a bit of a wait (about a month now for most things), it's all good.

funny how many of us use Chinese made firearms and are more than happy with quality and results.
would be lovely to buy NZ made,but they are few n far between and cost prohibitive for me at least...

i use a lot of ex military gear for my hunting etc .why -well theres an old saying if a soldier or toddler cant bugger it ,it must be fit for purpose! I also wear ridgeline -why because it suits me and Im yet to find anything to cause me grief .I fact ive got a dress ridgeline T shirt ibought over 20yrs ago and its still like new. bought from the original shop in armagh st (the old chcristcuhurch.OLthers have given me gear too -it suits my purpose and as a pensioner my limited budget .

That clogger gear is good, I have Stihl PPE simply cause I got it cheap and secondhand haha. Hear that about the big saws, a lot of horsepower pulls the string straight through. The sleeper for chap defeat are the little battery jobbies. The torque of DC electric will start the strands moving and pull the strands straight through the clutch.

Agree with the sales model thing though, profit factors are one thing but some of the business model costs and fixed overheads that these businesses are trying to operate under are just predatory. Some of the malls put their sqm rate for shop floor space up by 200% in the last few years and then started trying to clobber 20% of turnover figures on top of sqm rental rates! True to on the costs to land shipments into NZ, we get one or two containers a year - Walmart and Basspro level stores will order tens of 20ft shipping containers of just that one model of a product. Literally one product which they then repack into container loads for each shopsite at their main distribution wharehouses...

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Originally Posted by LMcNab

I may be right, or I may be wrong but when it comes to choosing who I buy gear from, I make certain assumptions about the quality of the gear based on the behavior of the company. Price certainly can be indicative of quality, but as we all know too well, there are some very expensive lemons out there.

In my head I split the cost to manufacture and sell any piece of gear is split into a bunch of different categories.

Raw materials
Labor
Retail costs
Shipping and distribution
and Marketing

I don't know what the exact ratios are, it's not important really for my buying process, just being aware they all have a share of the price tag is what's important.

The way in my mind to maximize the quality of the product you end up with for what you spend is to choose companies that minimize the costs of the product that have absolutely no impact on quality. Basically, the 3 bottom on the list above.

One of the things I have been considering is the huge amount some of the companies spend on A) Marketing campaigns on social media and B) Sponsoring "celebrities" and their shows or content. Anyone who has dabbled in promoting stuff on Facebook or youtube can tell you, that shits not cheap and some of these companies are throwing ads at you like it's going out of fashion. One of my rules for buying is I try to go to word-of-mouth recommended companies, which I haven't ever seen large-scale paying for social media ads, sponsoring influencers, or in not-so-subtle product placements on tv shows. All these costs are passed on in the price tag of your goods, and add nothing to their performance as a piece of kit.

I should caveat before someone trolls through my photos and points out something like Stoney creek or First Lite, I will pay for this stuff secondhand if it comes up cheap enough!

Another thing I consider is retail costs. If I can buy direct from the companies that is doing the manufacturing, that seems to me like it should result in a better cost/quality ratio. The company makes the stuff, and ships it straight to me, the end consumer. There is no markup by a secondary retailer, and no money is spent hanging it on a rack for display. I understand some folks like to try things on in a physical store, and I can appreciate that, but most companies have really good sizing charts online now and if you know your own measurements, you can make pretty bloody accurate orders without putting things on first.
I also acknowledge the need to support local retail outlets, if you want to have them stay around. I do try to use them as much as I can when what I want isn't available straight from the manufacturer.

These are just my thoughts, arguably they are wrong, but I'd have to say, they have resulted in some brilliant pieces of gear. Some companies whose stuff is killing it that I have found are Twinneedle, Earth Sea Sky, Sarvos MTac gear and boots (which sadly is no longer available), Kaiwaka, and Squires manufacturing. Coincidently they are all also manufacturing here in NZ!

If you disagree with my ethos, let me know why? Maybe you feel like promoting hunting entertainment is worth paying a bit more for your kit for?

Also, feel free to chuck some more companies out there who are doing a great job.
Cheers.

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One point worth noting- Any manufacturer who supplies direct to the public and discounts below what his distribution retailers sell it for will not last very long.
-Almost immediately, his retailers will stop buying it to sell - they wont earn a living being undercut by their own supplier. and
-secondly- the distribution retailers business model is built on customer facing interactions as their primary skill set. A manufacturer does not. Thus if the retailer cannot sell that product they will find another and they will still be more effective at selling than the original manufacturer.
A potential third consequence is the alternative gear sold by the retailer may end up being a bit dearer than the original product, but a better sales team and the reduced price of the original product may lead to the perception that the cheaper direct to market product is inferior.